BMW sell their soul

[Nutza]

I'd say that 80% of BMW owners buy it because they know this:

That whatever BMW do, they do because it is a good way to do it. Making it a better vehicle than most, more enjoyable to drive, safer- better function, etc. and reasonable resale.

After they figure that, they spend the extra. Whether BMW make it FWD or RWD, EDC or EBC or SLS really doesn't stick, they just buy what suits them and drive it. Since I'm talking about the big sellers, eg 318, 320, 525, (autos) I really don't need a survey to tell me this. But if you asked the owners of the larger engined, more expnsive ones, people who either gave an arm or a leg to afford the car, and perhasp bought a manual out of preference rather than laziness... the result would show near 100% knowledge about RWD and many other basic aspects.

FWD BMW? Inevitable. I bet they have a hard time doing it better than Mercedes and VW... but there's the challenge. If I were them I'd put all the effort into being the first company to provide energy re-cycling systems for existing cars or building a modern version of the e30, 32, 34... But they want to keep making money so they couldn't give a stuff about such musings.

[Bleifuss]

FWD is better in snow/slippery condition.
Weight over the drive wheels.
My old Toyota back in olde country was miles better in winter than my old mans E36.

[Vinnie]

Of course I meant from a Drivers perspective.

Sorry, didn't get a chance to get online much yesterday. The thing that bothers me with this statement is, yes BMWs in general are designed and marketed as drivers' cars, but the fact is that a large percentage of BMW owners don't give 2 hoots, especially at the entry level. A FWD makes sense from a cost/ease of manufacture point of view - it keeps production costs down which in turn keeps car prices down which in turn introduces new people to the brand. More money for BMW equals more R&D dollars, which ultimately means better cars for the enthusiasts. Win-win.

KInd regards,

John C Works

[luke]

I would challenge the statement that drivers don't give two hoots at the entry level. They still enjoy the driving dynamics of a 318i, entry level or not, and the fact that it is RWD gives the car those characteristics means that they bought it over a VW golf / Audi or other similarly sized small car.

FWD is no doubt coming, but how different would a FWD 318i be from a Camry, or Mazda 6? Both these FWDs have pretty good dynamics (for a FWD) are quiet, handle reasonably well etc. etc.

[yarpos]

British Touring Cars have some seriously quick FWD cars, and domination/superiority of RWD is not a given.

[yarpos]

FWD is very different to rear wheel drive in icy conditions, much easier to control for novices even at low speeds. Up a slight icy incline is can be difficult/not possible to get a RWD car moving but a FWD car will claw its way up the same piece of road......of course by the time it gets to this stage the chains should be out but it depends where you are and how fast the conditions come in.

doh! replied in wrong place....was responding to a comment earlier in the thread re FWD vs RWD in the snow

[intehnet]

i'm a 1 series owner (130i) my car would not be possible in FWD - therefore i would've gone with another brand (audi S3 or golf R32). i'm sure many 1 series owners wouldn't give a stuff. but yes, FWD is not as good as RWD for anything other than cheaper manufacture due to simple drive train

[DTM190]

If they were to build a fwd entry level banger, then let those who dont even know the difference between FWD + RWD buy them I say. We are not talking M cars here so why is it such an issue?

How many people who are beating the anti FWD drum have been sideways in their daily in the last month? Out of curiousity.

I see it as a stepping stone for them to develop more AWD platforms.

I also think there is a big difference between a 130i manual buyer and a 118i auto buyer. Like a few have said, i am sure most 130i drivers have bought them because they ARE rwd, good power/balance/brakes etc whereas I cant see 118i auto buyers looking at 5 different cars and buying the 118i over the other 4 purely because its RWD.

Even as a fan of RWD if I was to have a 118i as a putt putt town car, whats the big deal about FWD/RWD. Its not a performance car. It really would not bother me.

And PMSL @ mid engine hatch

[e30guydownunder]

How many people who are beating the anti FWD drum have been sideways in their daily in the last month? Out of curiousity.

I'm not really anti-FWD but at the sme time my opinion is also voided

FFS your on a public road. If you are really driving to the point you notice the difference you need to get on a track. The road is meant to be boring and mind numbing, you may as well have a boring mind numbing car for it! Also exactly the reason I m not upgrading from the lil 318iS in the short term....you don't need a fast car for the road and its putts along returning <10L/100km figures without trying.

[Sherweeeny]

How many people who are beating the anti FWD drum have been sideways in their daily in the last month? Out of curiousity.

errr....its funny, as actually before i got new tyres last week (for the civic), my last hurrah was getting it sideways around the S-bends, full countersteer and all... so it looks like my FWD has been more sideways in the last month than most RWDs on here

[jps323]

So what's the big deal? Are the 1 & 3 series going FWD?
Surely they will develop a 4 series or 2 series or something.

Perhaps they could resurrect the Triumph name. Although that being FWD would probably be worse.

[Ingolstadtter]

Engineering wise FWD is more complicated as there is simply more activity in the engine bay, more expensive as a result, especially when they start trying to move the weight back: something which Audi has only just managed with the new longditudinal platform despite it being a major negative for years. Was simply so expensive and complex to get around.

If they get the balance right, and having Mini for a long time now they should have the knowhow, no reason it wont be a decent car.

[shitbmxrider]

I would challenge the statement that drivers don't give two hoots at the entry level. They still enjoy the driving dynamics of a 318i, entry level or not, and the fact that it is RWD gives the car those characteristics means that they bought it over a VW golf / Audi or other similarly sized small car.

FWD is no doubt coming, but how different would a FWD 318i be from a Camry, or Mazda 6? Both these FWDs have pretty good dynamics (for a FWD) are quiet, handle reasonably well etc. etc.

Id never ever suggest that someone buying a base model 1, 3, or 5 would be buying it more for the badge than anything else.


Nope, never.

[luke]

no doubt some do... but there are still plenty of people who want something that returns good economy and handles ok.

Interesting that on a European car forum we seem to be getting people making comments / suppositions about badge snobbery pretty regularly.

From my own point of view - I've owned plenty of Datsuns/Nissans over the years as well as BMWs, and the reason I have owned either is because the both offer some pretty entertaining drives with good fuel economy - it would be a shame to see BMW lose this aspect of their base models.

[IanS]

British Touring Cars have some seriously quick FWD cars, and domination/superiority of RWD is not a given.

RWD cars in all categories are given weight penalties to ensure the FWD cars can keep up.