BMW E30, starter and power window issues

[Krazy000]

Okay.....here's an odd one..

Sometimes when I crank the engine, the starter won't engage....can here the solenoid click though....after a few attempts of "clicking" the ignition switch on and off....finally starts.

Oddly though....this has been intermittent. But.....it also is messing with the Power Windows. They now no longer work, but at times they come back on, then go off. Also....sometimes the power window switch lights stay on with the key off.....this has also been intermittent.

I remember a while back when I replaced the starter I connected the Black w / green strip wire that goes to the starter solenoid in on the wrong contact. Did basically the same thing......no start....and no power windows. Once I switched it the right contact on the solenoid, everything was fine.

Anyone experienced this? If so, what was the remedy?

Can't figure out on the wiring diagrams the true relationship of the Black w / green stripe wire on the solenoid to how it affects the power windows.

[E30///M]

Hi, you could have a faulty ignition switch. Test terminal 50 (black / yellow wire) at starter motor when it doesn't crank. You should have 12 Volts whilst someone is holding the key in start position. Cheers
Carl

[Gruelius]

if youve got the early diag connector jumpering pin 11 and 14 should manually crank the starter

http://www.noren.com/bmw/e30reset.htm

[aurace]

unloader relay?

http://r3vlimited.com/board/showthre...ighlight=relay

[TONTON]

My E30 wont start aswell... like it cranks but wont kick over...

There is this clicking sound so I think its the starter motor...

Anyways is the startermotor located like near the fuel filter ( in engine) for the M20 E30's?

And does it have a black cover on it?

[Gruelius]

yeah passenger side, big cylinder with small cylinder above it or below it.

mine had a black cover cable tied over the top of it, nfi if thats factory or diy mechanic.

what do you mean it cranks but it doesnt kick over?

[TONTON]

^ yeah i had that aswell with the black cover / cable tie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JSW3...307583&index=1

lol thats the only video i could find but its like that and then it tries to kick over but fails

theres alot of clicking also

[burkey001]

digging up an OLD post...

I have a funny problem with my power windows today. Wasn't present yesterday.

Today: Sunroof works. Sunroof switch is lit. Power windows dont work, power windows switches not lit.
Yesterday: Sunroof works. Sunroof switch is lit. Power windows work, even when ignition is off. Switches lit.

It has been that long since I used my E30 that I can't remember if it's standard behaviour for the windows to work with the ignition off.... Seems odd to me

I should add in I have read about the unloader relay etc and since my car starts fine, I don't think it is that problem


any tips for young players?

[DTM190]

have a look a bit more into the unloader on r3v Burkey, I remember when I had starting issues with the M50 car alot of people mentioned power window and sunroof related issues even when the car starts fine and there was a fix for it.

[burkey001]

OK so power windows....

This MUST have something to do with relay K5 as that’s where the ETK tells me the power windows and the sunroof get their power. Off the same single wire too… Refer the image below

- Fuse 17 OK
- Sunroof works
- Circuit breaker not broken
That’s a single power feed going to two systems yet one’s not working… Perplexing.

So digging deeper into the unloader relay situation reveals what many know, I had to look it up. Please feel free to interject…

The unloader relay sends a signal (should this be an EARTH or a voltage?) from relay pin 85 down to terminal 30H on the starter motor. This is the smallest terminal on the starter motor and is a black/green wire. Now E36’s have an all-encompassing “ZKE IV body module” which has one function like an unloader relay. Since I am using a X20 to C101 chassis connector translator I have double checked that yes my chassis connections are correct. (Pin 15 on C101 on my 88 325is is unloader relay)
The ignition switch sends a voltage, via the “fuel pump / start identification relay” to the starter on terminal 50. Black/ yellow wire. Pin 18 on C101, I have double checked this is correct also.
I will show this in a nice little paintbrush image.

As far as I can tell, I have the thing wired up correctly. The car starts fine, although the starter seems a little louder than I would expect, my sunroof works BUT I have no power windows!!!?? What. The.

I did some continuity testing on the starter motor and find that with nothing attached, terminals 30H and 50 and electrically joined… Is this expected? Terminal 30 is isolated from 50 and 30H when no power or cables are attached.

Some people on R3vlimited suggest to connect the black/green wire (unloader relay) to the same starter terminal as the black/yellow wire (start signal). I have no done this because I do not understand what it will achieve…. Can anyone elaborate what this will accomplish?

[burkey001]

Further to this, I was looking at the 'first start video' I took.

In this video I notice that my window switches were lit when car was off, and stayed lit as car started and after. I also see that the interior lights are on, dim as the car starts and then resume normal brightness.

[jjg]

Both the sunroof and the windows get power through the load reduction relay. This is ‘on’ only with the ignition switch on, so neither will work with the ignition switch off. The coil of the load reduction relay K5 is grounded through the starter motor winding (the black/green wire) which means the load reduction relay will go ‘off’ whilst the engine is cranking. You can test the load reduction relay as follows: take the black/green wire off the starter motor and switch on the ignition. Touch the black/green wire to ground (inlet manifold etc.) and you will hear the relay click ‘on’ and the sunroof will work. Touch the wire to battery positive (the big red wire at the starter motor) and the relay will click ‘off‘ and the sunroof will stop. If this happens, the relay is good. Touch the wire to terminal 30H of the starter motor and K5 will click ‘on’ again - if not there is an internal bad connection in the starter motor.

However, your problem must lie elsewhere since the sunroof is apparently behaving itself. If the windows were working even when the ignition switch was off, and now don't work at all, there must be a bad connection elsewhere in the power feed to the window switches (after it branches from the power feed to the sunroof). That bad connection must have been touching something permanently powered for the windows to have worked with the ignition switch off. Can only suggest that you follow the wiring back from the window switches…

[burkey001]

Hey thanks for the followup.

Something has changed to my car during it's life.... it doesnt match the ETK.

My sunroof is fused off Fuse #28, which is way off what the ETK says it should be (17).
ETK says fuse 28 is radio and cigarette lighter. Don't know what's happened there...

Anyway I went back to first principals troubleshooting...ignore this unloader relay business because I know it's wired correctly.

1) do we have power - yes
2) do we have earth - No

Turns out I had one bad earth wire on the G200 earth distributor. Run a new earth for the window switches... laughin!